Struts =Cobol, JSF Doubling (Not So Sure)
This is a quick response to a blog i just read which can be found here:Struts is the new COBOL; Demand for JSF doubles in 5 months
I actually am only taking issue with the assertion that Rick makes about JSF demand doubling in the last 5 months..and the tongue in cheek "In your eye" to JSF doubters.
To check out his claim..I went to indeed.com and did a global search on JSF..returned 290 or so results. Some of these were not programming related, so i tried "java jsf" which returned 230 results. These I think are valid to explore.
So..now i'm looking through the results...and well over half mention jsp, or some other java web framework, along with JSF. These results are in NO WAY JSF only, or even JSF primary job listings. It looks like JSF is just listed along with one or more other java MVC frameworks, as the hiring companies are throwing most popular java frameworks in the job listing.
For example..do a search "java jsf -struts" and you are down to 130 listings..almost half of them are filtered out if you wants JSF listings that do not contain Struts. Remove jsp from the list "java jsf -struts -jsp" returns just 22 results! I just dont think these searches really mean anything useful.
I've got nothing against JSF (though i have no interest in every using it in any of my work..that just my opinion), but Rick's blog claim that JSF is this rapidly growing beast isnt really accurate. Even a cursory look into the results make it obvious that JSF is just one of many web frameworks in most job listings.
All of this to make this point: I dont think folks should continue to use job listings as an indicator of language or framework popularity, unless you have a really good way to filter the results to make sure your search really returns what you claim it does.
Again, this isnt an attack on Rick or JSF..i've just seen a lot of these type posts the last few months, and most of the time, i think they do more harm (via hype) than good (via useful information).
EDIT (11/21/06): I performed the searches listed above again, and realized the original numbers i quoted (like 230 java jsf results) were just the NEW job listings not, the TOTAL listings. However, my argument still stands. While the total numbers are off, the percentage is still correct. For example:
Search Term Job Listings
java jsf 1556
java jsf -struts 691
java jsf -jsp 433
java jsf -struts -jsp 223
posted by Jeff C @ 2:09 PM
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2 Comments:
Hmmmm.....
"So..now i'm looking through the results...and well over half mention jsp, or some other java web framework, along with JSF. These results are in NO WAY JSF only, or even JSF primary job listings. It looks like JSF is just listed along with one or more other java MVC frameworks, as the hiring companies are throwing most popular java frameworks in the job listing."
Do you mean to say that people are using JSF with JSP? Shock! Since JSP is the only templating framework supported by the core standard stack, this is not so shocking. People having experience with Struts to work on a JSF project is also not so shocking as Struts has been around a lot longer.
I made no assumptions about the data. I just presented it in its raw form. In the raw form, JSF is leading job-demmand wise to all the other preteneders to the Struts throne. Plain. Simple. Numbers. No editing needed.
Based on your logic: There is 102 WebWork jobs on indeed, if you subtract the WebWork jobs that mention Struts, there is 21 jobs.
There is 192 Spring MVC jobs, if you substract jobs that also mention Struts than there is 55 Spring MVC jobs.
Of course I would not bother substracting JSP from either result, since both can use JSP.
Rick,
In regards to jsf using jsp..good point.
I would not remove struts from webwork results, as Struts2 is webwork.
I still contend, however, that these types of discussions are rather meaningless. A lot of job postings mention hiberate and ejb (which before jpa, were not inclusive).
My main argument remains that you cant really determine the jsf demand by using these results. Too many of the job listings are pure dumps of popular java frameworks. (though you could make the argument, even if its not being used, JSF has gained enough popularity for job posters to add it to the skill list).
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